Anchor Winch for CS27
CS with new
CS30 hull speed
CS36 Misty Gray
for Info on Manuals
Dual headstay on a
maxi propellor group purchase
One Third Share in
Props for a CS34
Request for CS36
Suggestion for the Nautically Obssessed
Welcome to AIM
V Drive coupling
with new bottom 10/30/97
I just got my CS30 back in the slip after having a bottom job. The last one
had been done in Oct'94 and the boat is in warm fresh water all year round.
As could be expected, there were some blisters. Not bad, though. The largest
was about 3/4" across. Most were less then 1/2". A total of about 20. None
went deep into the FRP laminate. The bottom had an epoxy barrier applied
the last two times (as per records from the boat yard that did the work,
in 94 and 92) and two coats of VC17. The VC17 had worn off in spots at the
bow, showing the grey Interlux 2000 epoxy barrier. Evidently, three years
is too long to go between bottom jobs, for VC17 in this location.
We had them put on four coats of Interlux 2000 and two coats of VC17. The
blisters were ground out and filled with Interlux VC Watertite. Next time
around, we may switch to a different bottom paint to get a longer life out
of it before hauling again. Haven't researched it yet, we sort of jumped
into this because we discovered the blistering while swimming a few weeks
ago and the boat yard had an opening; so we went with what had been done
before. VC17 is pretty popular around here.
We also had them power buff and wax the topsides and deck. She looks good!
I know there aren't any other CS owners down here in central Texas, but just
as a data point for comparison, the total bill was $1969 (including 8.5%
Anyway, motoring back to the marina I saw almost an extra half knot at full
throttle. We are eager to see what happens when sailing.
Owners Associations Listserver Discussions
P.S. Many thanks to Skip for putting the list server up.
|CSOA Request for Info
on Manuals 10/30/97
OK Listserve let us see you work!!
Does anyone have an original owners manual for CS33, that I could get a copy
of? I have a copy of a CS36 manual, have heard that one was never published
for the CS30. How about the other boats in the CS Fleet?
Anton & Shirley
I have a similar situation with my CS34. When we bought it, there was no
manual with it. I contacted CS Yachts, and asked for a manual. They replied
that one had not yet been completed, but it was similar to the CS36, so
they sent me a copy of that. They went out of business shortly thereafter.
Therefore, I think there does not exist a manual for CS34s. Maybe the same
is true for CS33s - I hope for your sake that someone can give you better
By the way, the list is not yet very populated, so you might want to resend
your messages in a few weeks.
There was a CS30 and CS36M manual published, but never the quality &
detail like the manual Ray Wall published for the CS36T and I assume CS33.
Having an in-house Architect pays dividends.
|CS27 Anchor Roller
Someone sent me a note telling of a manufacturer of a custom anchor roller
for a CS27. The manufacturer was in the Lake Ontario are but I can't find
the note nor remember who sent it. PLEASE HELP!!
Anton & Shirley
The following address was obtained from the Destiny Calls site. A CS27 currently
working its way down the ICW.
Barrie, Ont. L4M 6E7
For pictures and description please see the site:
I hope this is what you were looking for.
|Anchor Winch for CS27 11/3/97
I am relaying a query from an owner without e-mail.
Has anyone put an anchor winch on a CS27?
What kind and how?
Stephanie Greer (Polaris)
Would anyone have any information on the CS22. I was able to pull a review
but have found little else.....
|CS30 hull speed 11/7/97
After getting new bottom paint, I see a 1/2 knot increase in hull speed;
but, I wonder how fast I am actually going. According to the 1.34*sqrt(LWL)
formula, the CS30 hull speed should be 1.34*sqrt(25.42) = 6.75 knots.
My Signet knot meter must be reading slow. Motoring at 2900 rpm in a dead
calm only showed 5.5 knots. I'm pretty sure the boat goes at hull speed.
We don't seem slow compared to other boats we pass on the water. I tweaked
the meter up to 6.5 knots with the calibration screw. Now I feel much better!
I am looking around for a loaner knot meter to use to calibrate mine against.
Also, I'm trying to find a good enough chart of the lake I sail to get an
exact known distance to run a time calculation, which would probably be the
best way to set my meter, no doubt more accurate than using a GPS reading
or another knot meter. I'd have to borrow a GPS, anyway. Note that I am on
an inland lake, which is why I don't have navigation equipment and why there
are no reliable navigation markers.
So, how fast do CS30's go? The 2900 rpm at full throttle in calm conditions
seems about right to me. It revs to 3100 under no load, Volvo 2002 BTW. I
have a two-blade fixed prop, don't recall the pitch or size. I don't think
I am over-propped or under-propped.
Our CS30 goes around 6.1 knots in flat water at around 2400 rpm. Full throttle
is around 2900 under load which seems to get us about 6.3 knots. That's with
a clean bottom and no dinghy. We switched from the fixed two-blade prop to
a MaxProp three blade feathering prop (15"). We get less vibration with the
MaxProp more top end speed (about 0.2 knots in flat water but up to 0.5 -
0.75 with waves etc.) and much better backing up. We calibrated our knot
meter on a measured mile. Hull speed is a slippery concept - we do up to
about 6.8 knots (7.38 once!) under the right conditions under sail (broad
I owned a CS30 for years, with a "Gori" geared 2 bladed folding prop. The
boat flew under power, 2500 RPM = 6.5 Knots / 3100 RPM = 6.9 I think your
present fixed prop is a touch overpitched. Ideally you what to see under
load and full throttle, is 3200 RPM.
The Gori wears as time goes on depending care/usage and can set up vibration.
The chap who worked for Gori left and designed and manufactures the "Flexifold
Folding Prop", Cruising World gave it Top Overall Marks for Performance /
Value, in a recent survey of ten folding props.
Is anybody out there using a Flexifold? , comments please. Consider one to
increase your performance both under power and sail.
Hi, does anyone have any information on original or replacement circuit breakers
for the DC electrical panel on CS36's in the early 80's? My boat was built
in 1982 and has several broken 'off' switches and a few abandoned circuit
slots where the breaker was scavenged for higher priority use. I would like
to repair this without doing a complete rewire of the panel if possible,
anyone else had to deal with this?
Mary Ellen Spinar
Wind Dancer CS36
I'm in a similar bind, but a local marine electronics guy said he may have
a source. Thanks for the post. I'll give him a ring tomorrow and see if I
can get one to try.
Re request for information on original or replacement circuit breakers for
the DC electrical panel on CS36's from early 80's.
Captain Carsten suggests that you try Holland Marine in Toronto.
Tel: (416)762-3821 of Fax (416)762-4458.
They may have e-mail by now but our catalogue is old.
Let us know if you meet with success.
Stephanie Greer (CS36 Polaris)
Thanks Stephanie, I called and ordered a catalog of parts. Holland Marine
does not carry the push button/lever switch type breakers that are in my
panel but suggested I try Electrosonic in Toronto. They aren't open on Saturday
so will have to call again next week.
we have a 1980 CS36 with a westerbeke 30 / leyman / perkins 4-91 and I would
like to know the diameter & pitch for a maxi or gori folding propeller
- thank you
The recommended folding prop (Gori) for the CS36 powered by the 33 hp Westerbeke
is according to the documentation that came with my boat is:
- 18' diameter
- 10' pitch
- 1' bore
Originaly my boat had the 30 HP Westerbeke and was repowered with a 33 HP.
With the new bigger engine the original Gori folding prop (16.5' x 11')gave
adequate performance as well in forward as in astern (6.8 knots max. speed
and 6.1 knots cruising speed at 3300 rpm). I lost 3 years ago in Danmark
one blade of that orginal prop and changed to a Prowell 3 blade feathering
prop 15' x 11 3/4'. I am very satisfied with the performance and also the
new prop causes less vibration (because 3 blades compensates better for the
different flow of the water on to the top prop blade related to the down
blade due to the big aperture (angle of the shaft related to the horizontal
level = ca. 20 degrees).
Willem J. Kroes
|Inner forestay 11/17/97
Anyone installed an inner forestay on a CS36? Do I need to install running
backstays if I do this. I am thinking of doing this as I think she will be
easier to control in a gale than using the roller furling headstay to reef
the jib. Take the jib in completely and hoist a small jib on the inner forestay
with a double reefed main.
Don Taylor (CS36 "Kaulani", Lunenburg Yacht Club) has done exactly as you
describe. Running backstays et al.
He stores his boat at South Shore Marine for the winter so you could take
a peek at it next spring.
I put a request to Anton & Shirley asking if they had a problem with
putting a hot link on Pat Sturgeons Webpage in Toronto (Local Yacht Broker
who knows and sells a lot of CS's).
Haven't heard back, would you have a problem with this?
This would hopefully tap a lot of the Owners in the CS heartland, Southern
Go for it ask Pat if he will mention the CSOA web page. PSY (Pat Sturgeon
Yachts) has been on our page since the beginning.
|Rowing Tenders 11/27/97
Can anyone recommend a dinghy/tender that is around 8ft. and can be rowed
easily, towed well, & placed on foredeck? I am tired of the inflatable
that cannot be rowed. Anyone familiar with stitch and glue method of construction
by Devlin Design?
Anton & Shirley
Take a look at Boatex Dinghies Locust Hill Ontario Canada 905/294-9454. I
used to sell them (I have one 10' sailing model left). They are fibreglass,
Lapstrake, and have no liner that can take on water.
7'2" model weight=60lbs
8'3" model weight=75lbs
10" model weight=90lbs
I use the 8'3" on "Vlinder". It rows well and sails OK, but it won't fit
on my foredeck because of the babystay.
A dinghy that I have been interested in for quite a few years is the PortaBoat.
It comes in 8', 10' and 12' length. It is collapsible, to about 4" thick,
so storage on the fore deck would be simple. In fact, it could be attached
to your stanchions anywhere on the boat. All the reviews I have seen on this
product have been very positive. It sells for about $1000. West Marine carries
it, but I am not sure if you have West Marine in the east. Camping World
also carries it - ditto about availability in the east. The PortaBoat company
is in Mountain View, California. If the idea appeals to you, you could call
411 to get a phone number and call for literature.
Anton...I've used a Metzler inflatables for many years now...10footers, but
they do have an 8footer too...They have an inflatable floor that is very
rigid...They are fabulous boats to row and my new Nissan 8 pushes it right
along ,with 2 adults and a couple of kids...My 'Bronco' (10ft) fits on the
fordeck of my 33 while stored at dock and/or initially while under motor
when leaving port...VERY light weight and I can fold up dropping in my starb'
laz'...It would slide into the Q berth on some.. I imagine an 8 footer for
just a couple would take up even less room & do quite well with a lightweight
5hp... At our last Rendezvous dingy race, my crew and an 8 footer crew cleaned
up handily over all matter of craft... This german firm was bought up by
the Zodiac peaple as I'm told they wanted the rights to the floor...hardly
rocket science , but a good boat when it comes to an easy stable good rowing
inflatable...Towes fine ,but not so sure what any inflatable would be like
in an offshore sea...
buzz if you need more info..Cheers from "Blue Heron"
|Winter Boat Covers
Just received a recommendation concerning custom boat covers for CS Yachts
from Tom Lyons CS40 "Lionheart III". Quinte Canvas Mfg. of Kingston,Ontario
produces these covers of 10oz. waterproofed canvas, can be made for mast
installed (in water storage) or without the stick. Have any of the other
CS Owners out there used this companies products? With the current exchange
rate it seems like a great deal for those CS owners south of the border.
I spent some time yesterday speaking to David Davis of Quinte Canvas and
I'm pretty sure something can be worked out for a discount of orders for
5 or more of the same type of boat. The only catch is they would all have
to be shipped to one location to make pricing the same, give it some thought
and get together.
Please check Quint Canvas web page for more info:
Anton & Shirley
What would the price be?
This is the qoute I received from Quinte Canvas for my CS30. This is without
the discount that Anton talked about.
The winter cover for a CS30, which includes the 1" aluminum frame skelleton.
the canvas cover which is fitted to the frames. and goes to about the water
line of your boat. Clamps to assemble the frames, rope and instructions on
how to install your cover. Standard length of the cover is about 5' from
the top of your life lines down. There is a doorway so that you can get inside
if needed. This can be placed at the stern or on either side of your boat.
The price for our cover is $1458. Canadian. Shipping, customs & duty
is less than $200 Cdn. At this time the U.S. Dollar is between 35 & 40
%. (I think???)
If you would like the cover split in half, add $100. This breaks the weight
of the canvas down from about 120 lbs to two bundles of 60 lbs. (saves the
If you would prefer a longer skirt along the sides. add $100 for the extra
At this time we could deliver this out to you by mid next week. If you live
close enough to Kingston you may pick it up if you prefer. ( I checked the
location of your internet server to find out where about you lived. to see
how I had to price it out. With or with our our cdn taxes. Upper N.Y. I think?
Should you have any further questions, pls do not hesitate to get back in
touch with me via e-mail or by 800 268 4186.
Dave Davis, m.f.c.
Quinte Canvas Manufacturing (Top Shop) Inc.
1150 Clyde Court, Kingston, Ontario K7P 2E4
(613) 384-6316 Phone (613) 384-0002 Fax (800) 268-4186 Ont, PQ, Northern
|Request for CS36
I have just received an inquiry from a person considering purchase of a CS36.
Mr. Fritz Franzen would like to get in touch with a few current owners of
the famed CS36. Fritz can be reached at
FFranze@aol.com, his request was for
a CS36 owner to call him at 515-292-2610. E-mail is probably best, CSOA members
list shows no member in 515 area code, nor does CS Owners West. Where is
515 area code?
Anton & Shirley
This message is for Fritz F. I tried to send it directly to his aol address,
but aol says he is not currently a member, so here it is on the list.
I have owned a 1984 CS36 for 3 seasons and would be happy to correspond.
If you need instant advice, here it is. If you can find one in decent shape,
If you can find a CS40 Merlin, let me know and I'll buy it.
There was a CS40 for sale at RCYC (Toronto) last year. I looked at it but
decided to go with a CS36 Merlin instead. The broker, I believe, was Angus
Yachts (don't hold me to that). I don't know if it is still for sale. Regards.
To: JHLambdin: Thanks - I have as good as got it bought! Fritz
John: Thanks for the advice. I definitlely am on AOL - I don't know what
could have gone wrong. I will be closing on a 1979 deep keel CS36 in two
weeks. My wife, Susan, and I like everything about the boat, and its in
unbelievable shape (sailed summers only in fresh water - stored indoors)
My only question was how the steering holds up in a seaway. Roger Marshall
in "Designed to Cruise" says that boats with a bustle have a tendency to
completely lose control because of turbulence along the rudder. So far I
have three answers from CS36 sailors and all say they have not experienced
this problem. Thanks for any advice you can offer.
|Mast noise 12/1/97
I noted the query concerning taming mast noise. On my current boat severe
noise (reverberating down the mast and then throughout the rest of the boat)
resulted primarily from a slapping 3-wire connector to my tricolor. I pulled
the wire out of the mast and fastened, every 8 inches or so, three cable
ties with 120 degrees (roughly) sperating them. I did not cut off the ties,
so I had three flexible plastic strands eminating from the wire on eight
inch intervals. I then ran the whole works back into the mast. It has been
totally quiet since, and has caused no problems with the halyards, and in
fact has, I believe, served to quiet whatever contribution they were making
to the racket. I hope this is of some help.
Anybody know where to purchase replacement lifeline stanchion bases like
those that were used on 1985 CS30? They look like cast aluminum (or some
sort of alloy). Three bolts, two through the toe rail. I took a quick look
around the marina, but didn't see any other boats with similar base, but
there aren't any other CS boats here.
Have you tried Holland Marine Products in Toronto? Talk to Peter there.
Call Holland Marine Products
3008 Dundas St W
Toronto Ontario, Canada M6P 1Z3
Tel 416 762 3821 fax 416 762 4458
If anyone has them they do. I got a new stanchion from them for my CS36
Rob and Fraser,
Thanks for the info about Holland Marine. I called them, and they are shipping
one to me. I'll let y'all know how it turns out.
For those that are interested, Holland Marine tells me that they carry many
custom parts for CS boats. I understood the person I talked with to say that
they even manufacture some of these parts themselves. They require a $10
membership fee to order anything. I forgot to ask if that is a lifetime
|Dual headstay on a
While on the topic of CS parts, has anyone installed a dual headstay on a
CS30? We currently have hank-on headsails, and are thinking about going to
roller furling; but I'd like to have the ability to put up smaller jibs,
without dropping the one on the RF. I'm currently thinking of cutting the
150 for the RF sail, since it is the one we most often use. Another way to
go would be to get an even larger sail for the RF, keeping the 150 and the
110 as hank-on alternatives. So I'd like to keep the headstay wire in addition
to adding RF. I suppose this could be done by modifying or replacing the
stem casting and the masthead. We are just at the "thinking about it" stage
The dual systems I've seen have the RF and the headstay running about eight
inches apart at the bottom end, and equal distance forward. I wonder if it
would be feasible to put small yokes at the masthead and stem fittings. One
side would hold the RF and the other the wire stay. The yokes would rotate
according to which sail was out. I remember seeing an article a long time
ago on Walter Cronkite's boat that had some sort of dual headstay arrangement
like this. It would not be as robust as independent connections, but it might
be acceptable. It could save a considerable amount of money over replacing
the existing stem and masthead castings, if that would actually be required.Maybe
there is a simple bolt-on solution? The few dual systems I've looked at appear
to be the original rig design, not modifications.
|One Third Share in CS
Anyone out there,
We are looking for a ONE THIRD partner in our 1982 CS-36, "Misty Gray" which
we keep at Schooner Cove Marina near Nanaimo on Vancouver Island. One partner
wants to leave the partnership for health reasons. This is a relatively
innexpensive way to enjoy wonderful sailing on a great boat.
I can be reached at home (250) 752-9864, at work (250) 954-1566 or my e-mail
Guy Gauvin or Valerie Gunn
|Welcome to AIM 12/3/97
I just signed up for Netscape's "AOL Instant Messenger", a 'buddy' system
for interactive chat,which is available free to Netscape users and, I think,
AOL users. If you're interested in it, there are some
listed that give more info. Signing up was really easy. I use Netscape 4.04,
which I just downloaded to upgrade from Netscape 4.0.
maxi propellor group purchase 12/3/97
I have contacted the people at maxi prop & they are willing to give us
a group price with no tax for out of state persons the last price with a
small number is 1143 us please respond if interested
Max props our generally very expensive here in Canada. Can I assume, you've
quoted the cost for a two blade (USD or CDN?), sounds good.
Have you seen the article that Cruising World did on Folding/Feathering Props
this past year?, they had some interesting comments and insights.
The problem here in Vancouver is Flotsam, i.e. wood, if you take a big enough
piece, the only thing left of the Max Prop, is the hub.
One of the best folding props out there in this article was the Flexifold
(A Refined Gori), for performance and value.
i will be contacting the company and requesting a price for a 3 blade maxi
and also determine a price for a CS30. I will post this in the new year.
Are you dealing with PYI in Edmonds, WA on the Max-Prop or is there another
one you are referring to a 'maxi-prop'? I have ordered a 3 blade for my CS36
and have been watching this message and others regarding props go back and
forth. I must admit that I'm surprised how many different diameter props
we seem to be using on the 36. My owners manual says the original equipment
is a 17' what diameter are you planning to order?
Mary Ellen Spinar
I've got a brand new 3 blade Max-prop waiting to go on in the spring. It
is a 12". Max-prop has the specs, pitch, etc for the 36. Note that it is
not a trivial thing to put it on. In most cases the shaft thread has to be
cut to properly fit the zinc. I purchased mine through a local dealer who
will haul, mount, test, and rehaul if necessary.
I bought and installed a 14", 3 blade MaxProp last spring on a CS33 without
any problems, and did not have to cut the shaft. Next spring before launch
I will increase the pitch slightly, but overall was very happy with the
performance all last summer. I have a Volvo 2003 motor, 28hp, 7 degree prop
One piece of advice. The local dealer told me to remove the prop during the
winter because they are so expensive and in such demand that there have been
instances of them being stolen off the boat during winter storage (assuming
that you haul during the winter, of course). In fact, there have been instances
where the shaft was cut to get the prop. I have heard of no instances where
it was stolen from a boat in the water!!!
CS33 "Bonnie Skye"
I'm curious, was your fixed blade prop 12" or did you go smaller? When I
talked to the Max-Prop folks, they told me that the measurements went one
of two ways. Either you swing the same diameter and set your pitch one degree
lower or you bought down 1 inch and kept the same pitch setting. I was pretty
certain my 2 blade fixed prop was 15" in diameter, now I'm going call the
guy who dives on my boat and have him measure it so I can be absolutely sure
(again) and then call Max-prop (again). We are planning to haul out in April/May
and install the new prop along with routine maintenance.
Mary Ellen -
I currently have a two blade Martec folding prop. Can't tell you what the
dimensions are. I'm putting on a 3-blade Max prop, not a two. When I met
with the Max Prop folks at the Annapolis show they just looked in their book
under a CS36 and for a 3-blade, 12inch is what they recommend. That was
subsequently confirmed when my dealer checked as well. Nevertheless, after
the holidays, I'll retrieve the new prop from the cellar and measure it.
Naturally the size will be larger for a two blade.
Hope this makes some sense.
At 2500 RPM what kind of speed do you maintain?, I have the same power plant
in a CS36 Merlin.
I find the best crusing speed for the engine is 2300 rpm, that is the point
of optimum specific fuel consumption and I find the engine seems happy at
that speed. On calm water and no significant wind with sails furled the CS33
will cruise at 6.6 to 6.8 knots. However, I do not believe the pitch is optimum
(it was set at 24 degree angle which gives a pitch of 11.8" - too little),
because I can easily run the rpm up to 3100-3200 (near high idle speed) without
feeling that the engine is working very hard. Therefore, I plan to increase
the pitch next spring by one setting - to 12.8". As you know it is better
to be slightly under pitched than over pitched. It is interesting to note
that Fred Hutchison at MaxProp (email: email@example.com) recommended
either a two blade 14" dia at 15"pitch, or a three blade 14" dia at 13" pitch.
I believe the latter will be the best combination for the volvo 2003 at 28hp.
On my CS33 I could not go any bigger dia because of too little clearance.
For anyone wishing to buy a MaxProp I suggest they try contacting J.P. Marine,
669 Hudson Street, Boucherville, Quebec, Canada, J4B 5R2; tel 514-655-6304.(near
Montreal). He is a very small dealer - operates from his house - is reputable,
and buys direct from Italy, and his prices should be better than anywhere,
especially with the low value of the canadian dollar these days.